How do people feel about creating some 4 star routes in tas .... I sort of like it in the Moonarie and Blueys guidebooks. Deep play into free route an obvious one - and Hamish mentioned Killiecrankie? But I've never climbed there. The thought has come around because a few people who have repeated Tyger Country at Gordon Gorge claim it best route they've done in Tassie, and it makes starring some other classic routes in the area harder relatively. Probably best to wait until a few more repeats on Tyger Country to confirm but just starting the discussion! 

  • No labels

5 Comments

  1. simon bischoff

    i know its easier said than done, but i think it would be more logical to remove stars from routes rather than create a 4 star system. The obvious candidates for a 4th star, the truly exceptional routes in tassie that people seek out, the tote, pole dancer, antimatter, after midnight etc are not really in need of any more publicising. Newer routes that are exceptional, like tyger country will in time earn their place. Thats my two cents. Also...while i'm here, this cannot be said enough -  thesarvo is awesome

  2. Pat Eberhard

    Simon's on the money. Less stars is better - maybe new routes should be published without stars at first and earn them with repeat ascents. 

  3. Carl Hansen

    Agree with whats been said already, less is more imo. Removing or placing less stars on routes (new or old) makes the 3 star stuff stand out in the same way a '4th' star would (if, as a community we 'want' things to stand out more is a separate, though related, topic). At the end of the day stars are subjective and personally i much prefer a 1 or no star route that's surprisingly good than something with 2 or 3 which doesn't seem much different to other stuff at the cliff or statewide.

  4. Christoph Speer

    Interesting topic. I agree less stars is the go rather than adding more to the total tally as Simon has said. I also think it's always going to be hard to dish out stars accurately in Tassie across the huge variety of crags and competing styles.. there's certainly some nous in deciding for yourself what the route's worth based on area, style, who did the FA and what it looks like from the ground, rather than getting too upset about the vagaries of it afterwards. I would personally rather have a sliding scale out of three at any given area/crag, rather than have a wall of no star or 1 star climbs for me to work through.. Of course this i sjust my interpretation..

    Personally, I've always tried to treat any of my routes as: no star (loose, crap, dangerous, boring), 1 star (fun - worth doing), 2 star (Memorable, one of the best routes at the crag), 3 star (has to be pretty special). I'm certainly guilty of overstarring at times, especially after new routes just get written up. But, I think the community and developers need to be open to the idea that when things first go up it's on the basis of the FA's subjective opinion, then the community collectively decides whether something is better or worse, harder or easier than what was proposed originally, and adjusts accordingly.

    So I would further the discussion and put out the question - what should each of the stars represent and how should they be interpreted / assigned?

  5. Hamish Jackson

    What a pleasantly harmonious and well-subscribed climbing discussion! Nice to hear from you all.  While I would broadly agree with 'the less is more' idea practically, and also Simon's point about the hazards of over-publicising, I also notice that the concept development above has simultaneously cast some light in favour of the original idea from Alex, as follows: Christoph's fairly uncontroversial framework where stars are simply a practical albeit subjective way discerning which routes are the best ones in an area or region is what i observe generally prevails in Australia *. This is what proves most helpful to climbers new to an area and making plans for the day. In this framework I would say the four star route is that which 'would be a stand out route if placed at any crag, anywhere in the world'.  When seen in the context of what we currently mean by one, two and three stars, this idea seems perfectly cohesive to me. But hey -  even if valid and maybe even useful when chatting to mates,  it doesn't mean we need to put it in the guide books!


    I'm not sure if the Moonarie and Bluey's examples have been associated with negative impacts or not? A four star, well bolted moderate sport route would surely get hammered! Someone might even build an airbnb apartment at the base! In contrast I don't think that Fire Tail (or Tyger Country for that matter) are in danger of being over-subscribed. The **** reputation of the tote (and maybe pole dancer - which incidentally I would give ***), combined with their exposed locale may have created a slight moth to flame effect, where people without the necessary skills underestimate the difficulties and subconsciously are relying a bit much on our amazing chopper-rescue team we have atm! So this is another hazard of over-promoting with stars, as stars don't capture the hazards and may even obscure them in the eyes of next punter!


    *i have tweaked his wording from 'one of best at the crag' to 'one of the best in an area or region', as again this helps people decide what to do an given day, including which crag to visit.  another nice idea I've heard is "people want to repeat two star routes if they come back to area".